#34 Could YOU start a titer clinic?

Titer clinic: Lisa Rosamino is ready to host one now that COVID-19 pressures are letting up for her pet food buying club.

She learned about titers from Dr. John Robb and me but wanted to make it easier for her many pet food customers to get that testing done easily and affordably.

If your local vet has either refused to do titer testing or made them prohibitively expensive, you’ve got options. Recent reports from listeners that some vets are even refusing to draw blood for you to get a titer done spurred me to explore titer clinics as a viable workaround.

Tune in to see what it takes and maybe you can organize a titer clinic in your neighborhood or pet store. I’ll bet you could do this!

I also review why yearly titers are both unnecessary and potentially dangerous if you misunderstand this test’s results.

Links for this episode

You can find Lisa, her raw food wisdom, and buying club on Facebook under rrrRAWSOME!!
or by email at lrosamino5@ gmail dot com

For help on getting the blood sent to the right place, check with Dr. John Robb on Episode 4

Why are yearly titers NOT recommended? Two past episodes will answer that for you:

  1. Listen to Dr. Robb’s interview on Episode 4 “Titers and Immune Certificates”
  2. …and my interview by Julie Anne Lee on Episode 16 “Titers: Are you Using them Wisely?”

The Fallacy of Titer Tests This article will help you understand what titer tests can and cannot tell you.

I mentioned rabies as a bit more complicated a disease, as there are “laws” to compel vaccination in most states and a titer may not be viewed legally everywhere as proof of immunity.

A good place to deepen your understanding of this disease and its “laws” is my free Rabies Short Course.

Addendum: Successful Titer Clinic!

Lisa recently sent an update I’ll share to inspire YOU to set up your own titer clinic. Here’s what she said, and some pics from the day. Boo YAH!

I just wanted to share with you that we had our Titer Clinic today and despite not getting as many dogs as hoped (due to the 4th of July Holiday Weekend) we had 23 dogs get their blood drawn and things went off without a glitch. About 15-20 more dogs owners wanted to participate but the holiday weekend was an issue.

We had a couple volunteers and I served all the workers a nice lunch, the weather was cloudy and cool, and we held the clinic outside with the 2 vets and techs being spaced apart.

I just wanted to thank you for your encouragement! I was half tempted to have my Aussie Pipers blood drawn, today,just because…but declined, as I had it drawn through Dr. Robb in 2017 and it showed adequate antibodies, and I guessed it would be a bit redundant.

All the helpers involved agreed that we had a great day, and all the dog owners expressed their gratitude for us offering this service in such a nice stress free setting and with 2 wonderful vets and 3 techs who donated their time and efforts! I hosted it and my volunteers were super helpful.

I intend to write down all the little and big details involved in offering the clinic so if anyone out there wants some tips, I will be able to provide some advice to simplify their efforts.

I have had a few people reach out to me after listening to your podcast 34, expressing that they passionately want to host a titer clinic and I’ve had a bunch of people join my FB page as a result of listening to your Podcast 34 😉

Thanks again Dr. Will! 

Some of the pics Lisa shared, for your inspiration:

Thanks for listening! AND: YOU can do this! Get a titer clinic rolling in your area!

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Next week: How to ask the right questions of your current or future vet to get your needs met. I hear you floundering over this, yet savvy pet owners get just what they want from their vets when they make themselves clear. Don’t miss this if you’ve ever felt powerless at a vet visit!

Let us know in the comments below if you could see a titer clinic in your future. And tell us if you’ve stopped retesting titers yearly.

Episode 34: Could you start a titer clinic?

Intro: If you want a wildly healthy, naturally disease resistant pet who turns heads and starts conversations with awestruck onlookers, you're right where you belong. This is the Vital Animal Podcast with your host homeopathic veterinarian Dr. Will Falconer.
[00:00:36] Welcome to another session of the Vital Animal Podcast. I have the very special privilege of interviewing a friend and a student of mine. Lisa Rosamino, who is up here. I believe upstate New York. Is that right, Lisa?
[00:00:51] Lisa Rosamino: Yes, that's right. Saratoga. New York
[00:00:54] Will Falconer, DVM: Saratoga. Okay. So how far up the area is that from New York city?
[00:01:00] Lisa Rosamino: Oh, it's about three hours.
[00:01:02]Will Falconer, DVM: All right. And you have got a business up there helping lots of dogs and their owners. Tell us about that business. What's it called?
[00:01:10]Lisa Rosamino: It's been affectionately called Rawsome.. It really morphed into me, feeding my dog raw out of desperation many years ago, because I created a very unhealthy dog with over diligence over care.
[00:01:25] So I was interested in his story. I, our first family puppy was a black lab named Bailey and I was connected with the local breeder that was very good, but extremely. Allopathic. And I'm an, I'm a nurse with that background and I hadn't converted to the bright light side yet at that time, I hadn't seen the light.
[00:01:48] And so I really wanted this puppy to be safe and protected. And I probably allowed too many parvo vaccines and she got parvo presumably from the vaccine. And boy did she almost die and they didn't want her in the clinic. I took her home and she had IV's that were hung. And I'd go back to the hospital to get more fluids than a new IV site, but she lived, but she was never healthy.
[00:02:15] She was itchy, smelly, sweet as can be. And she died to me at the early age of 11 from bone cancer. So I feel like she was our sacrificial lamb in some respects.
[00:02:29] Will Falconer, DVM: And so she was a bit of an impetus to, to take a new direction for you.
[00:02:33]Lisa Rosamino: Totally. Because it was so heartbreaking. And actually with the people that I work with now, I see this heartbreak over and over with a lot of what they think is, sound advice from their vet.
[00:02:45] And I have to redirect them in the opposite direction if they want to well dog.
[00:02:49] Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. Great. That you've got a nursing background. That's a big leap. I have a handful of nurses, I think who come over to the understanding that more is not better and vaccines are not the answer to all illness.
[00:03:03] And so I applaud you for making the leap from that very conventional path to where you are now.
[00:03:10]Lisa Rosamino: I think when you see that something doesn't serve you, we should shift and yeah, and I think for a lot of us in the medical field, there's a frustration. There's a knowing that something ain't right.
[00:03:21] Yup. And so I think when we can't unlearn what we learn, when we learn the right stuff, in my opinion, I agree. When we know about nutrition, we can't justify kibble-- you just can't go back.
[00:03:33]Will Falconer, DVM: And vaccine damage, it's hard to go back and say that was just a one-off, I'm not going to see that again.
[00:03:39] Or my neighbors seeing that didn't have anything to do with my understanding about vaccines being dangerous, et cetera. Yeah. Good for you.
[00:03:48] Lisa Rosamino: And also I work with a population of mostly young adults with developmental disabilities I'm an employment specialist now, it was just like a job coach. I adore those on my case, but I really question how much of this has been from the jab.
[00:04:05] And it's so sad.
[00:04:07] Will Falconer, DVM: It is. Yeah. Their lives have been changed for good, most of them. Yeah. They're not going to come out. So tell us about Rawsome. What do you do there?
[00:04:16] Lisa Rosamino: So basically I originally started out of need to create a little bit of a co-op because there had to be a point person to just source good quality things that we would feed a raw diet.
[00:04:29] So I started to just have a little handful of people that we I got stuff because raw feeders, we're crazy. We run around from one store to the next, looking for day old broccoli and artichokes and stuff. You know what I mean? But I just, you became that person that said, let me, I can handle this.
[00:04:44] Cause I, we have a little bit of property, a little gentlemen's farm, and I could have cars back here or a truck back here early in the morning. So I started to source some of the ingredients that go into a do it yourself raw diet, and it just grew and grew. So now. Basically a co-op and I do pretty much most of the work, so I dunno who's cooperating with me, but no, but I have a bunch of wonderful volunteers and I have a phenomenal group.
[00:05:10] We're really a little community, but I also have a ready-made product as well. That's really a great launching point for people that should have started feeding raw yesterday. They can just start and not worry about learning everything. Cause people are pretty freaked out about what they think they need to know before they can start.
[00:05:28] And I, I have a private Facebook that's just so that everybody's kind, and we were no matter where you're at in this journey, we're very supportive. We're very encouraging. There's no mudslinging. And that's where a lot of your stuff is posted. John Robb's stuff. Anything that's that I feel is informative.
[00:05:49] I, I get to share and it makes me look good, but really I can't take any credit for sharing all this good stuff.
[00:05:55]Will Falconer, DVM: Thanks for sharing that. How many people do you think you're serving through the Rawsome co-op?
[00:06:00] Lisa Rosamino: I think there's about 200 in that group and there's probably about a hundred in the ready-made product called Pack Leader.
[00:06:09] Will Falconer, DVM: So 100 of the 200 or another 100?
[00:06:12] Lisa Rosamino: Another100.
[00:06:13] Will Falconer, DVM: Wow. So 300 people are benefiting.
[00:06:16] Lisa Rosamino: And I never advertise. I don't want anybody to tell anybody about me. I'm so burnt out.
[00:06:23] Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. Yeah. I hear ya. It's a lot of work. Yeah. I'm glad you've got some volunteers. This is just how you probably heard the interview with Casey Maxwell earlier. That's how she got started in San Francisco Raw, SF Raw., and it's just grown and grown.
[00:06:36] And like you she's serving lots and lots of people in her area with raw food makings and prepared raw food. So you can come in and pick something up, but you have to be, you have to fly through the gates first. She doesn't just take anybody off the street. So very cool.
[00:06:54]One of the reasons I asked you on Lisa was it caught my ear with my last interview with Dr. John Robb, that you are one of the people doing titer clinics.
[00:07:08] So for those of you who haven't heard the word titer yet, titer is a measure of antibodies in your dog or your cat's blood or your blood, if you're going to a human physician. A titer just means how much immunity shows up as antibodies in your blood.
[00:07:24] And we can use those tools to decide, "Did my animal become immunized from past vaccines or maybe past natural exposure?" And they can help us make decisions to avoid excessive vaccinations, because if there's a titer, it says, yeah, my animal is immune. I don't need to get another vaccination. So tell us about your titer clinics.
[00:07:49] How did that evolve? And you being a nurse must be an ace in the hole for getting that going.
[00:07:55] Lisa Rosamino: Well again, I try to rise to the calling of the need and there I really was pretty put off by a local situation with somebody that really needed a rabies titer, because she was in trouble with the town for, in the Gestapo go door to wonder if your dog is vaccinated.
[00:08:16] So she was pretty worried about going to court and being in trouble. So I suggested that she go to somebody and get a titer done. It's a no brainer that it's pretty scientific to present. It may not fly, but it certainly shows due diligence to a judge in my opinion, and this particular vet, I guess had quoted her like $300 for it and she didn't have the money.
[00:08:39] And I was just, I felt like she knew the truth that it probably should cost about 60 bucks or maybe under a hundred through John Robb, and so that didn't sit well with me. And I just felt like, why don't we just do a grassroots thing ourselves? So actually it was last March when you-know-what hit that we had the titer clinic all planned, but it, so it didn't happen.
[00:09:03] So it's been rescheduled for, it'll probably be in a few weeks here, but like I said I have a little farm. And I've got easy access to come in and out. So I've actually asked two wonderful holistic vets locally, if they would participate. And if they wanted to have a fee I had, I have no problem with that, but neither one of them had wanted that.
[00:09:27] So they're bringing their own vet techs. There's going to be two vets, which now I realize the techs could probably stand in for that, which you make a little bit more. Yeah. So anyway, we've got a flyer, we've got an Excel sheet where we're going to schedule people. They've got to fill out paperwork prior, just simple stuff, decide what, whether they want the core and rabies or just one or the other.
[00:09:52] And so it's, hopefully it'll be smooth barring life not happening, but, so we're going to just I'm going to use my home. And get to my, on deck and ready to go and we're going to do it that way. And then, and so I think we should have a really good turnout because there's a really strong need and a strong interest.
[00:10:11]Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. Yeah. And in my make sure I call out the episode. My episode recently with Dr. Robb was number 30, where we talked about the size of the dose, but that's where this discussion also came up. You can get about vet tech to set up a clinic in your store or in your neighborhood or whatever. And in your case, two holistic vets is even better, they're willing to volunteer their time to draw blood.
[00:10:39] And as he said, all you need is somebody to draw the blood, a centrifuge to spin it down. And your dog or your cat. I think it was a, there was three things. I can't remember. The third. Basically through Dr. Robb, protect the pets.com. You can send these yourself, you take the blood that you get from a titer clinic, you can put it in a ups envelope that comes from Kansas state lab, where they run the test and send it off yourself. And Dr. Robb will help interpret that for you. He'll give you a, an immune certificate that says, yeah, there is a titer that therefore says this animal is immune. And you've got some evidence to keep in your files that, yeah, my dog is a good citizen or my cat is a good citizen and immune to rabies and immune to… you've got a choice, you can do these core vaccines as well, which Lisa mentioned, which is probably distemper, hepatitis and parvo, I'm guessing. And then a cat's probably Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis (and Panleukopenia). Are you going to do cats as well or just dogs?
[00:11:47] Lisa Rosamino: I hadn't even thought of it, but that's a wonderful idea. Okay. We'll have to be all wrapped in grass.
[00:11:54] Will Falconer, DVM: First Hawk- Eagle gloves, okay. You're just on the verge of getting that rolling. And so many natural pet stores could do this across the country. It's a no brainer. The reason this discussion came up is I had a client who said, " I tried to get a titer from my vet. My vet wouldn't draw the blood for me to send off.
[00:12:13] He wanted to send it off to Dr. Robb, and the vet wouldn't draw the blood. So I asked Dr. Robb, " what's an alternative?" He said, "oh, this happens all the time. We get a vet tech in, we get a bunch of blood drawn and everybody goes home with their own little package to Kansas state where they run the test anyway."
[00:12:31] And he also pointed out that he's educating vets about this so that they don't get charged $150 from IDEXX or one of these Antech labs. They can send it directly to Kansas state, which is where they're run anyway. And then pass on the savings to their clients.
[00:12:49] Lisa Rosamino: And, I find that if a client goes to the veterinarian and the vet tells them what the price breakdown is, it's a lot.
[00:12:56] And so I think that the vet could almost logically say, and if the titer comes back and it's not good, you're going to have to vaccinate them anyway. So I think that a lot of pet owners are saying, all right, let's just vaccinate, which is such a wrong direction. So I think … honestly, people could do this in their community, in their garage, out of their garage.
[00:13:17] They could put a couple yoga mats down. So I think it's so wonderful to do in a facility or a business because it's wonderful for the business and it shows such integrity in my opinion, but we could dumb it down a lot more than that even. If somebody is willing to do it, I think we could go around that complication.
[00:13:38] Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I think the value of having a, like a pet shop or a store front is that you can get many people into the same time frame and have one tech who stays busy just drawing the blood. So that's an advantage of scale, I think. That's excellent. Cool.
[00:13:54]Lisa Rosamino: I'll mention that when you said that client that you had, that her veterinarian was n't very open to drawing the blood. My first I've only done one titer for my Aussie, and it was through John Robb and it was the most wonderful experience. It was so seamless. But I had a local mobile vet come to pull her blood, and then he could spin it in his truck because he had a centrifuge.. And I told him, after I told him after how grateful I was for him and that I could get him so much business doing this.
[00:14:24] And he didn't say much cause he was pretty dry, but his wife sent me a scathing email later that he has absolutely no interest in getting involved in this. He served you and you alone. And I was just like, I was just trying to help his business, but she was not open at all.
[00:14:39]Will Falconer, DVM: He's got six, six days a week of seeing animals that are sick and trying to figure out how they're sick and how to get them well.
[00:14:44] So yeah, I hear you.
[00:14:46] Lisa Rosamino: No, actually this vet saw clients three times a week, and then he was pulling into retirement. But it was really that he had no interest in drawing titers.
[00:14:56] Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. So that triggers a thought for me, which is, you may know this from nursing, but what is the simplest procedure and the highest markup that happens in a veterinary office?
[00:15:09] It's vaccination. Yeah, no question. Do you draw in the fluid in the syringe that takes 10 seconds, you lift the skin and you squirt it in. And the cost on the dose of vaccine, last time I checked for rabies is about $2 and 40 cents. And so you look at the bill you're paying and that's marked up way more than 10 times often, probably 20 or more times.
[00:15:36] So who wouldn't want to for economics thinking, just vaccinate instead of do a titer, you don't have to think about it. You don't have any, basically any cost involved and there's not a long history taking, there's maybe a brief exam that takes place. Let's if you want to see a vet on a yearly basis, let's just bypass that idea that has to include a vaccination. Because there's no logical reason to do that, but it is great to have a hands on exam.
[00:16:08] Your vet can know and feel things that you may miss at home. But it's gotta be in the context of I'm here for a health checkup, period. I'm not interested in getting more vaccines. Cause my animals animal's already immune. See? Here's the titer. And you can have that in your file and bring it to the vet office and any vet who knows what a titer is says.
[00:16:30] Oh yeah, sure enough. There's a parvo titer that's positive. There's a distemper titer that's positive. And there's a rabies titer. You may get some blow back on rabies because everybody and their brother, most communities and states have a law about it, but that doesn't make it impossible to avoid excess vaccination as well.
[00:16:53] Keep an ear open for, or actually visit: I'll put this in the show notes, visit my free Rabies Short Course and start your education there. We'll go into more depth in a paid course before too long to help you see that you've got options. But yeah, the other thing is mentioning this to Lisa before the show and I just want to make sure everyone's on the same page with the two of us. There are some who feel that yearly titers is a smart idea.
[00:17:23] So let's talk for a minute about what Dr. Robb uncovered in episode 4, and what I talked about in more depth with Julie Anne Lee in episode 16, which is that a titer is really a yes or a no question.
[00:17:39] Did my animal make immunity? If the titer is positive in any number: yes. Or did my animal not make immunity? There's zero showing on the titer test. It's less than it's. It's nothing. So it's either positive or negative. So once you know that, what do you do with it?
[00:17:58]We also know from the immunologists, primarily from Dr. Ron Schultz, University of Wisconsin, PhD in immunology, veterinary immunology, that immunity lasts a long time. There's this thing called duration of immunity and the odds are it's going to be years and years of immunity, if not life. That's published work out of Current Veterinary Therapy, way back when. So long lived immunity means you don't have to keep testing that immunity every year.
[00:18:31] It's going to go on for years, probably for life say the veterinary immunologists. But here's the thing, and I'll have a link to a post I've written or a page I've written in my series on vaccines called The Fallacy of Titer Tests, which is eventually a titer will run low. It's just a given it's not in Nature's best interest to keep pumping out antibodies year after year, when there's no challenge, there's no parvo blowing up their nose or distemper coming along.
[00:19:03] It's a waste to keep making a titer, making antibodies. So at a certain point, probably years down the road, the titer will fall. The mistake is if you read that as zero immunity, "Oh oh, my animal needs the gas tank filled! We got to go back and get another shot." If that happens, it absolutely happens all the time and seniors and I cringe because I hear more and more reports of seniors who start getting very ill after that unnecessary vaccine.
[00:19:36] So it's important to understand that titers only measure part of the immune response. There are hidden behind titers, memory cells that are not very measurable unless you live in a lab and you can afford thousands of dollars of testing. So these memory cells, if they need to, if they're get exposed to parvo or distemper as an adult and the titer is low, they will start making a titer again, really quickly.
[00:20:03] They'll pump out the antibodies and you'll have a titer once more. So for those people who are finding ways to avoid vaccines, do use a titer test. That'll tell you if your animal made immunity from that vaccine, but don't rely on a titer test to tell you the whole story. It does not. It just tells you part of it.
[00:20:23] Lisa Rosamino: I think that's so valuable because sometimes we have to switch our thinking. We go allopathic and then we want to be err on the side of safety for our pet, but then we've got this voice in our head. Like even the postcards that recommend you come in for a well dog check. I don't, that really means come in for their vaccines and that's, I don't consider that to have the same equal meaning like what you said, if a veterinarian palpates, the dog, does the once-over and does a real thorough physical exam that is for wellness and preventativeness, but "C'mon in cause it's cause your dog's little hourglass ran out and now you're, "Whoops, I'm not immune anymore." They say they're due for their vaccines. Yes. Yes. And that's, and I know, I think w you coined a phrase, "They're current," you said that's what we should answer.
[00:21:16] Your dog is current. Yeah. I really like that.
[00:21:19] Will Falconer, DVM: Yes. Yes. The reality is if they showed immunity on their titer test, way back when, the odds are, they are current on vaccines, and you can tell that to any groomers or apartment managers or anybody you like.
[00:21:34] So besides raw food and titer clinic. That's about to come up, it sounds like you're also fairly involved with educating folks. And I think that deserves applause as well. So I will link to your Facebook group. Can people join that even if they aren't in your area?
[00:21:51] Lisa Rosamino: Sure. Okay. We're we're only 500 now. We're but it's a group of 500 great people. Cool and very encouraging.
[00:22:00] Yeah. So I think my goal is really to create community within the dog population. Some are are really fighting pretty significant battles with their pets, that we all know the damage was done, and it's going to be hard too. Yeah, but the support that people get to try to think differently and take different approaches.
[00:22:21] I can't tell you how many people. I know that they take the new puppy to the vet and they come home with a bag full of drugs and suppressive steroids. And I cringe, but I'll tell you, you have a quick conversation with them, show them a little bit of logic and they get it quick and they take another direction.
[00:22:39] And that's really gratifying. You wish they didn't have to end up in that place to begin with. But yeah, like I said, I think if people learn stuff, it's going to be hard for them to unlearn it and buy into the propaganda again.
[00:22:55] Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people like you with your early Lab that got into such sickness, they learn from that experience hopefully, and don't have to keep repeating it.
[00:23:06]And it gives them a new direction to go well, Sure seemed like the more we went to get allopathic prevention, the sicker this dog got, we gave a monthly heartworm, or we gave a yearly vaccine or whatever. And it seemed every time we did more, things got worse. So that's a great springboard for people.
[00:23:28] And the other thing is, I think it's huge that people not feel alone in this path, right? It's a pioneering path, unfortunately. I'm looking forward to the day before I leave the planet when it's commonplace. And the exception is the people who say, oh, I got to get annual vaccines. So having a community where you can share stories and share thoughts and hear many other people giving input is an extremely valuable thing, whether you do it on Facebook or. you, join us in our Vital Animal Alpha group, where we're studying acute homeopathy for your animals. And we have a discussion group and we have a live meeting every month. And just having the chance to bounce ideas off of someone who is of a like mind, whether they live in your neighborhood or not, it doesn't matter.
[00:24:17] Lisa Rosamino: And I think that we're starting to know there's a better way. We just don't know what that better way is until somebody does a little handholding. A little come alongside me. I know that this is so typical that's happened with me for the last several years is people have really sick animals.
[00:24:32] They've gone every traditional route and the end up at a holistic vet, maybe talking about acupuncture, Chinese medicine, other modalities. But that's a real twist for them too, because that's a whole other thing that they're just not familiar with. So they're entering into that. But then one of the vets that's actually going to do volunteer for the clinic, she tells them that she can't heal them unless they change the diet. So talk about that, blowing their mind because they bought the best kibble they could ever get in.
[00:25:03] Sometimes they buy prescription kibble that has actually no value to it, generally. And so now this vet's saying, you've got to feed your dog raw and they, and then she pushes them my way sometimes and they come to me like a deer in the headlights. They're like so overwhelmed and now they've got to do this, but they're at the end of the road. They're really, they don't have too many other choices other than to start doing it. So I talk them off the cliff. I tell them to take a deep cleansing breath.
[00:25:30] We can do this. And then we start to just dumb it down. And then I watch them exhale. But I tell them, you know what, this is the most gratifying thing you'll do for your pet. And so it takes five minutes to prepare a meal rather than 22 seconds. You're going to be glad you did. And they, and the healing is pretty, pretty darn quick in some respects.
[00:25:51] So that's the part, when I see the zombies come over, that are like, was so blown away with all that they feel they have to do right now, but that's where the handholding is good.
[00:26:02] Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. Yeah, it's very valuable. And the animals are so responsive to that. Even just a diet change in the direction from a kibble to a raw diet, they'll see the dogs a lot eyes light up within a week of doing that within two weeks, they'll be shinier on the coat, that matter in the eyes will start disappearing or they'll start sparkling, the ears clear up.
[00:26:23] Yeah. It's so rewarding. Yeah, that's great. Yeah Lisa, this has been great, and it's going to inspire people to A. Get with community, B, find a source of raw food in your neighborhood, or get it shipped in if you're, if there's nobody around you and see, start thinking about titer clinics locally, all you people with pet stores, especially.
[00:26:50] Maybe co-ops that unload the truck with raw meats and stuff could just easily say we're gonna, we're going to unload that truck in a gym this week and in the gym, we're going to have a vet tech who's going to come and draw blood for you who want to get titers done. Can people contact you for organizational ideas along those lines?
[00:27:12] Okay. All right. Good. So we'll have some contact info in the show notes for that. Let me get you the right call out letters. So you'd go to the right place. This is going to be episode number 34 with Lisa Rosamino. So the shortcut to get there is Vital Animal dot com slash 34, we'll have valuable links there.
[00:27:34] So if you're listening to this on mobile Vital Animal dot com slash 34 will get you the goodies and how to hook up with Lisa, learn more, get something organized in your community. And get those animals just another advantage along moving down the natural path, whether it's getting raw feeding going in your area, you could probably write a book on that.
[00:27:57] You started from nothing. And put together, you probably got a ocean full of freezers in your barn or something.
[00:28:05]Lisa Rosamino: Every month we get a notice from the, or whoever paid the national grid. They keep saying that we're the highest in the area. And I think our house must glow, but I have three stand-up freezers in my garage, two chest freezers, a stand-up in my barn, and I have 5,000 pounds in storage. Somebody out of put me out of my misery. I'm telling you,
[00:28:30] Will Falconer, DVM: I want to put a call out to all those volunteers out there. If you liked being part of that stuff. There's nothing like a co-op. Grew up in my college years, going to co-ops for my food. And I got a discount when I helped out for several hours a month, it was fun and got to work alongside people of like mind.
[00:28:45] And so if you're in the Sarasota area and can help Lisa out do volunteer and wherever you've got a source of rough food or want to get one started, just get a band of people together. It can happen. It can be as simple. I remember a co-op where it was just a meeting place in a parking lot and a truck would come and unload all these natural foods.
[00:29:07]Lisa Rosamino: It's Saratoga, not Sarasota,.
[00:29:11] Will Falconer, DVM: I don't want to send you to Florida.
[00:29:15] Lisa Rosamino: Dr. Will, if you start to create a co-op, you're really doing the vendors in your area a favor, because the stuff that we use is a lot of times it's just discard of the food industry, chicken necks, chicken liver, turkey, necks, all that stuff, that icky stuff that we call it, but the vendor that maybe is a restaurant supplier, that's a pass through thing for them and they can make a little bit on it and it's going to good use and we buy in a lot of volume. I know that I've got a really good relationship with vendors here and they laugh because I'm always singing their praises about how much, how beautiful those chicken necks were or whatever. And theythink I'm nuts, but I, but it really, we have healthy dogs because of those particular businesses, that we're using.
[00:29:58] Will Falconer, DVM: Yeah. That's a great idea. Yeah. And it's going to be a win-win. Not only did the dogs get healthier, but the people that vend the stuff have an outlet for chicken feet and things that might not be valuable to a restaurant.
[00:30:12] Lisa Rosamino: Thank goodness that bone broth's in style, because they use it for good.
[00:30:19] Will Falconer, DVM: All right, everyone. Join us next week for another episode and big, thanks to Lisa Rosamino. Again, join us in the show notes for this episode at Vital Animal dot com slash 34. We'll see you next time.

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  1. Victoria Blair on November 2, 2021 at 11:41 pm

    Hey! I’m a mobile groomer with a past life being a vet tech! Hmmm…I’m already set up with a table and counter space for a centrifuge. I just wonder if the vets in this area would be able to come after me for drawing blood? BTW, I’m in CA. But pretty much stay under the radar.

  2. Andrea on July 9, 2021 at 4:29 pm

    Don’t most vets now have the Vaccicheck in clinic test for titers which is done in minutes? https://www.vaccicheck.com/
    I had mine done that way through a mobile vet I sometimes use and my holistic vet charges around $65 plus blood draw etc. I also had a vet draw blood and sent it myself to Dr Robb before vaccinating for rabies for the first time at 6 yrs old (for emigration) just to see if my dog had rabies antibodies from natural exposure living in the woods as I personally know someone that had this happen and I’m sure it happens in others but never gets tested. Unfortunately out of the two vials the one they chose for rabies titer was not viable for testing for some reason so I will never know.

    • Will Falconer, DVM on July 9, 2021 at 10:42 pm

      In house titer checks with kits like this are okay, just not as accurate as the “gold standard” test done by KSU. And they don’t test for rabies. Yet. Maybe that day is coming.

      “Natural exposure” positive titers for rabies are rare and unpredictable in that the virus travels by saliva from a rabid animal. And it doesn’t survive very long in the environment. I don’t think you could set out to get one with any reasonable hope you’d be successful.

  3. Beth Blankenship on July 4, 2021 at 2:10 pm

    Hi this is very exciting. I’m opening a home based doggie day spa on my property next year. I had already planned to offer this to my clients but never thought about doing a titer clinic per se. I can draw blood myself as I’m a retired vet tech but I’m not licensed. Would I have to get a vet to run it with me to comply with laws ?

    • Will Falconer, DVM on July 4, 2021 at 10:40 pm

      No, Beth, you’d just need a tabletop centrifuge (Amazon?) to spin down the cells and contact with Kansas State lab, who’ll send the shipping materials for each owner to pack their tube into and ship UPS. Listen to my first episode with Dr. Robb for details. You are in a perfect position to do this! (And, if it were me, I’d suggest “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy about the blood draw.) Your skill set is perfect for this service and your intent is to help people and their pets. Go for it!

  4. Lorraine Sullivan on July 4, 2021 at 7:55 am

    This is GREAT! Thank you so much for getting the word out about starting these titer clinics. So many pet parents were not able to get a titer done on their dogs because of the outrageous cost of getting it done through the vets office or being denied when asking their vet to draw a vial of blood from their dog so they could go elsewhere for the titer. I hope these titer clinics start popping up all over the place.

  5. Leah on July 4, 2021 at 6:50 am

    How wonderful! Thanks for posting the update Dr. Falconer. Thanks for hosting the clinic Lisa. You both inspire others.

  6. Lury Budde on July 4, 2021 at 6:35 am

    Hello from Temple Texas we have 2 Australian shepherds and I talk to 3 vets here and refused to test and 1 asked for 200.00 dollars to draw blood but said she would not send it I would have to find a place to test it. She also has said I’d I don’t vaccinate she is required to notify the authorities. I feel threatened that the city will take my dogs from me if she decides to start trouble. This is crazy! What rights do we have? My dogs haven’t seen a vet in over 3 years now and I feed raw my cat as well. They are all healthy 6 and 7 years old cat is 3 I just hope we never have any emergency. If you know of any doctors who are holistic friendly in the central Texas area I would appreciate the information.
    Thank you for all you do.

    • Kathryn on July 4, 2021 at 11:06 am

      I’m also in central TX (Austin) & would love to participate in a titer clinic.! I’m sure there must be many others who share the sentiment in Austin…

      • Will Falconer, DVM on July 4, 2021 at 11:56 pm

        YES! Organize among other like minded folks and make these clinics happen!

    • Starr Phillips on July 4, 2021 at 6:30 pm

      Hi Lury Budde,

      I live in Nacogdoches, Texas. Wow, after reading your experience with this vet, I’m not sure if I could of held my tongue towards her! (Back to that in a minute). Continue searching for a Holistic understanding Vet. As I am doing the same. I did research, School of Veterinary Medicine University of Wisconsin-Madison. Find the area that says CAVIDS Titer Testing. The pricing for testing is very very affordable. I spoke to them, they were very helpful.

      My Vet, has agreed to pull my dogs blood, Spin it to seperate the whole blood from serum and hand me the vial. Then I am going to send it in myself, and get the results sent to ME.

      My vet will charge around 20.00$ to draw the blood and spin it.

      I have not done this yet, this is what I was told from my Vets office. So I will let you know if I have any hang ups.


      This Vet you went to, that basically threatened you, well I would defintely never go back to her! What a Rude, and Bullie she is! People like that are just “small”.
      I really do not know how she looks at herself in the mirror and truely thinks she cares about animals.
      You probably have more control and left her office better than I would. If it makes you feel any better, just know if I had been walking out with you, I would of gave her a pretty good “Stump Cursing” as I left!

      Lets Stay Strong, a lot of us are on the same page here.
      Dont let her scare you ONE bit!

    • Andrea on July 9, 2021 at 4:11 pm

      A friend in Florida said the “holistic” vet said the same thing about reporting her if she refused rabies. I don’t know about the US, Dr Falconer is this really true or just a scare tactic? But in Canada my vet doesn’t require shots to see or do surgery on animals. Me friend is a human holistic healthcare practitioner (saved herself from her 3 months left to live death sentence with cancer 4 yrs ago using all natural means…dr said it was nothing she had done 🙄) and listened to the vet. I told her just say no, she works for you!

      • Will Falconer, DVM on July 9, 2021 at 10:38 pm

        Sounds like a scare tactic to me, Andrea. Vets are under no obligation to report “out of date” vaccinations and if they threaten to, they are both infringing on your right to make healthcare choices for your animal and woefully ignoring DOI (duration of immunity).

        Shame on that behavior.

    • sherry richardson on January 20, 2022 at 7:36 am

      Lury, when she was talking about the vaccination was she talking about the yearly vaccinations or just the 3 year rabies vaccinations? Because there is no law wrapped around the yearly vaccinations those are volunteer not mandatory the rabies vaccine is the only one that is required (every three years) by law. I would find another vet maybe outside your area.

  7. Starr Phillips on July 3, 2021 at 5:01 am

    Hello, Thank you so much for all this great information!
    (Just a little history). My husband and I farm for a living, we have raise cattle (Jerseys), and grow Poultry for a large Integrator here where we live.
    We have 4 large dogs, OTHER than puppy vaccinations, we have NEVER had my dogs revaccinated.

    For two years, we have been grinding and making a Species/Prey Appropriate food for our dogs. Our dogs, are two Greyhounds, 4 and 7 yrs old. Lab that is 5yrs old. And Golden Retriever that just turned 14 yrs old.

    We live in the country, our dogs have use of a dog door to the our house, our backyard is safely FENCED 2 acres. Under our supervision only our dogs get to run, romp and explore outside of our fenced area, on the remainder of our 35 acres. several times a week.

    I have always been very curious and interested in the whole “Titer Testing” (World). So out of curiosity, I want to get a Titer done on my Golden Retriever. She just turned 14 yrs old! She DID have Parvo and recovered when she was a puppy (2007).

    I have Already had two Vets refuse to help me, if they CANT be the ONES to send it off themself, etc etc., ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY! Unbelievable!

    I already have the paper work filled out, and even spoke with the Vet Director over the Lab to send it to University of Wisconsin-Madison School of Veterinary. She was super helpful.

    But I am just stunned with some of the reactions of my local Vets.
    But, I am NOT done yet, they are defintely not the only game in my town, I still have many more to contact and see if they will do it.

    Just wanted to share my story, its sad, BUT the push back from some Vets is still out there!

    Thank you.

    • Will Falconer, DVM on July 3, 2021 at 9:41 pm

      Thanks for sharing this, Starr. Other options I’ve heard working include “feed stores” where they periodically have some vet and/or vet tech come for a “vaccine clinic.” They might draw a tube of blood for you. I just got feedback from my guest on this episode that they held a very successful local titer clinic. Two vets took turns with two vet techs, all volunteered their time and the host provided lunch! A great time was had by all, and the titer results will be mailed directly from Kansas State to each owner for their records.

      So, YES: you can do this, and I hear the determination in your words. You’ll get your needs met, intransigent vets not withstanding!

      AND: if the only dog you feel the need to titer HAD PARVO as a youngster, odds are you don’t need to test this animal. Immunity is likely there, if if the titer has fallen out. Remember, titers don’t measure that all important cellular “memory,” and your survivor certainly still has that intact. This article may be helpful so you know the limits of titers and don’t misinterpret a fallen titer as “immunity must be gone.”

      • Starr Phillips on July 4, 2021 at 5:08 am

        Thank you so very much Dr. Falconer.

        YES, I listened to your interview you had with Lisa Rosamino, (from upstate New York, hosting the Titer Clinic day). What a great success!

        UPDATE: Hurrah! I heard back from one of my Vets, (after talking to the RIGHT person answering their phone), (and NOT just a warm body thats ONLY purpose is to answer the phone). My Vet, WILL do this for me!

        (I suspect this info got to my Vet, that “Starr” was on the phone, and he intervened telling the girl that answers their phone, “YES” we do this.

        My Vet, which I do NOT have to see that often, (BECAUSE all of our animals stay healthy), knows I have Always spoke my mind, and follow a more NATURAL approach to raising animals, dogs, cattle, 50,000 chickens, etc.

        (I think he knew I was fixing to JUMP ship from him).

        I am so excited to have found you. I am steadily reading, absorbing and listening and listening again to you and your Web site.. I can NEVER stop learning.

        Thank you AGAIN for all the HARD work you do, and the LOVE you have for Animals.

        We live in Nacogdoches, Texas. (East Texas).

        Starr Phillips

        • Will Falconer, DVM on July 4, 2021 at 10:53 pm

          Just be sure to inquire about price, Starr. And listen to Dr. Robb’s first interview to understand why the huge disparity and how any vet can send blood directly to KSU to get you the best price possible.

  8. Cheryl on June 7, 2021 at 8:07 pm

    I find so much value in all your podcasts! Thank you so much for taking the time to put all this valuable information out there. I volunteer at a local rescue and all for of my animals are rescues. Unfortunately vaccinated before I can adopt. I have used titers for the distemper since listening to your podcasts and great to find out I dont have to do it yearly! Great cost saver!

  9. Hazel on June 3, 2021 at 6:54 pm

    Dr. Will,

    I need to share that when my vet insisted on giving a distemper vax to my 10-week-old dachshund puppy, I said no. I did that because of what I learned from you. I requested a titer because this sweet girl already had Distemper from the breeder at 6 weeks old (cringe, I know) along with Adeno & Parvo. Vet said it was “impossible” for a titer to come back positive because of Mom’s milk. I visited a holistic vet who happily did the titer, but even she was doubtful about the positive results.

    Results came back with positive for Distemper & Adeno. Negative for Parvo. With that, I’m on week 2 of the natural immunity protocol.

    Here is my question: is it possible this sweet girl has memory cell immunity from her 6-week-old Parvo shot despite her titer coming back negative? I’ve read the article saying it IS possible, but it did not specify if that’s the case for a shot given so young when her immunity is still predominately from Mom.

    Love your work, and thank you for saving so many pets, including my own!

    • Will Falconer, DVM on June 3, 2021 at 9:08 pm

      I seriously doubt the 6 week vaccine immunized your pup, Hazel. No worries, though, you can do the natural exposure protocol and titer again to see if you were successful this time. When that’s failed, it’s only been because people didn’t choose an area with enough dog “traffic,” so don’t be shy about where you go. Just limit the time of exposure each time, as I’ve described from Dr. Manziano’s research and you should be golden.

      If you would, post us again here in a month or so to tell us how you did.

      • Andrea on July 9, 2021 at 4:02 pm

        My dobe puppy had the 4 way shots at 7 and 9 weeks before I got him. He had nothing else before his titer at 5 years old and he showed antibodies to parvo, adenovirus and distemper no problem. I ended up telling the mobile vet I used for that when he was last vaccinated as a puppy as she said one was low and should be done the next year. No response from her!
        The following year at 6 yrs old he had his first ever rabies July 4th, the 2 flu shots and bordatella 7 weeks later (both for moving to New Zealand) and died Nov 14th of cardiac hemangiosarcoma. He had his yearly full heart check the end of Feb that same year at the University of Guelph who have been doing a Doberman DCM study for decades. This includes 24 hr Holter exam, cardiac ultrasound and EKG and bloodwork. Nothing was seen abnormal in his heart then. My 2 yr old dobe I have almost died 6 months ago from rabies vaccinosis – again only done for moving to another country. Homeopathy with Dr Dym has helped him recover!

  10. Pat on June 3, 2021 at 12:37 pm

    I’m in mid-Tennessee, would love to find a clinic

  11. Susan Echelman on June 3, 2021 at 12:04 am

    I really appreciate your efforts regarding this matter and I’m willing to do whatever I can to make this become a reality.
    Frankly I’m tired of being threatened by traditional vets that I’m teaming the laws for not getting my dogs vaccinated for rabies.

    • Meredith Dow on August 29, 2021 at 9:27 am


  12. Patty Coyne on June 2, 2021 at 2:36 pm

    We are planning titer clinics in Arizona. One vet involved is making a request to Kansas State Diagnostic Lab in order to offer a group rate. I can connect your up to coordinate this via email.

    Also have a startup company doing house calls for lab work. They are not disinterested either.

    Dr Robb has run the samples for several pet purveyor locations.

    Lets make this a group thing!

    https:// affordablepetlabs dot com/

  13. Leah on June 2, 2021 at 12:10 pm

    I would love to find a local titer clinic near me in Tampa, FL..it would be awesome if someone knew of how to find these! Thank you for all your excellent information and guidance!

    • Susan Echelman on June 2, 2021 at 11:59 pm

      I noticed you live in the Tampa area. I livd in Riverview and am also interested in having access to low cost titers. Is it possible we could work together on this?

    • Susan Echelman on June 3, 2021 at 12:00 am

      I just noticed that I typed the wrong e-mail address

    • Susan Buys on July 4, 2021 at 7:12 am

      Hi Leah, I live over the bridge from Tampa in north Largo, and also would like to work with you in finding or establishing a titer clinic. Also, I m still searching for a vet in our area like Drs Robb & Falconer.

  14. Lorraine on June 2, 2021 at 6:55 am

    Thank you Dr. Falconer for putting information out there to help people get titers done on their pets. It’s amazing how many people have trouble getting a simple titer done on their pets and are left with no other option than to give their dog the unnecessary vaccine booster.

  15. Stephanie Schenk on June 2, 2021 at 6:42 am

    Where can I get the transcriopts, so I can read info in five minutes instead of thirty of listening to things I don’t care about?

    • Will Falconer, DVM on June 2, 2021 at 8:10 am

      They’ll be right up above, once they are done being edited. It can take a while, so have a listen while you’re on your next dog walk or doing chores that allow you to listen to something worthwhile.

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